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Curcumin / ASC-J9 and related items
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Registered: 08-02-2009
Posts: 206
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The Internet is a wonderful thing, as it brings all the current news on curcumin to us. A few searches reveal that curcumin is being tested for everything from acne and hair loss, to cancer and Alzheimer's disease. If it were effective for all of those things, it would truly be a miracle drug, like aspirin that works for everything from headaches to heart attacks. I just hope curcumin (or ASC-J9) works for SBMA.

The subject of today's post is the proliferation of new versions of curcumin. Plain ordinary curcumin is not well absorbed by the body, so about 80% to 90% of what you ingest passes through unchanged. Researchers are trying to solve that problem, and they have invented many different forms of curcumin. Following is a partial list:

1. Turmeric (the spice, ground-up).

2. Curcumin (a powdered extract of turmeric).

3. Curcumol (an oil-based liquid extract of turmeric).

4. Curcumin with piperine, a black pepper extract that is believed to block intestinal enzymes that break down the curcumin.

5. Longvida, which was invented at the University of California. It is a form of curcumin that is coated with lipids, which are fatty-oily particles that are claimed to protect the curcumin and facilitate its transport across membranes.

6. Meriva, which was invented by the Italian pharma company Indena SpA. It consists of curcumin coated with phosphatidylcholine, claiming benefits similar to #4.

7. BCM-95 or Biocurcumax, which comes from the Indian pharma company Arjuna. It consists of curcumin coated with essential oil of turmeric, claiming benefits similar to #4 and #5.

8. Nanocurcumin, which was invented by a cooperative project between Johns Hopkins University and the University of Delhi. This one has curcumin encapsulated in nanoparticles that are claimed to protect it and increase solubility.

9. Dimethoxycurcumin or ASC-J9, which is being investigated by AndroScience Corp. It is a modified version of the curcumin molecule that is claimed to have better efficacy and better absorption into the body, but is not yet available to the public.

10. ASC-JM17, which is similar to ASC-J9 but designed to be taken by mouth rather than by injection.

Well, folks, I have read all the claims and I do not know which ones, if any, are true or false. The only thing certain is, taking #1 or #2 above (plain turmeric or curcumin) is not going to work, since very little is absorbed.

For my part, I am taking #5 (curcumin with phosphatidylcholine, 500 mg daily). I am not noticing any apparent negative effects, and I might be having a small improvement in certain symptoms such as fasciculations and cramps, but I am not sure.

One last thing: I am absolutely not intending to suggest that anyone take any form of curcumin. There is not much reliable information available on the safety, effectiveness, or dosage for oral curcumin. Also curcumin is not FDA-approved. This posting is for your information only. Any decision you make about taking anything should be made in consultation with your doctor.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Dan B,
Registered: 06-29-2011
Posts: 8
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Dan, Thank you very much!
Registered: 06-29-2011
Posts: 8
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Here is Dr. Chawnshang Chang Lab :

http://www.urmc.rochester.edu/...nshang-chang-lab.cfm

1. Kennedy's (SBMA) neuron disease: The availability of the complete AR sequence quickly led to finding that SBMA patients have mutated AR sequences with longer poly glutamine (polyQ) regions thus permitted this mutated AR to interact with other proteins (coregulators), forming a nuclear aggregation that interrupted neuronal functioning. In 1996, Dr. Chang's team isolated the first AR coregulator (PNAS, 1996), and from there, they screened the first anti-AR compound (ASC-J9) that interrupted the interaction between the AR coregulator(s) and the AR leading to AR protein degradation. Testing in mice proved that ASC-J9 could improve SBMA disease symptoms markedly by decreasing the AR-polyQ aggregations. Moreover, SBMA mice treated with ASC-J9 retained normal sexual function and fertility (Yang et al, and Chang, Nature Medicine, 2007). This continual effort from cloning AR, to isolation and characterizing of AR coregulators, to finding a compound to provide better treatment for SBMA, truly represents an idea of from the bench to the bedside.

And you can find out the Article from here:

http://www.urmc.rochester.edu/...ang-papers/CV262.pdf


Here are some curcumin:

1.Now foods bio-curcumin (mevia):
Now foods

Serving Size: 1 Vcap®
Servings Per Container: 60

Amount Per Serving % Daily Value*
Bio-Curcumin Phytosome
(Turmeric Root Extract (Curcuma longa)/Phosphatidyl Choline
Complex) (Meriva® Turmeric Phytosome)
(Standardized to min. 18% Curcuminoids - 90 mg) 500 mg *
* Percent Daily Values are based on 2,000 calorie diet.
† Daily Value not established.

The point is just "18% Curcuminoids - 90 mg" per vacp.


2.Life Extension Super Bio-Curcumin (BCM-95)

Life Extension Super Bio-Curcumin

In Product Description , that shows:
Each 400mg capsule of Super Bio-Curcumin is equivalent to 2772 mg of a typical 95% curcumin extract


3.Longvida Curcumin (Very expensive)
Longvida Curcumin


Not easy to find the right one...

This message has been edited. Last edited by: zhu,
Registered: 08-02-2009
Posts: 206
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Hello Zhu,

Thanks very much for your post. The numbers show why doctors sometimes get frustrated with the claims and counter-claims over herbal products.

The NOW-brand product with Meriva that you mentioned, with details at this page, is standardized to 90 milligrams of curcuminoids per capsule.

The LifeExtension brand with BCM-95, details at this page, is standardized to 380 milligrams per capsule, but they count both the curcuminoids AND the Essential Oils of Turmeric, so the number isn't perfectly comparable to the other brand. From the 380 milligrams, they don't say how much is curcuminoids and how much is oil of turmeric. The curcuminoids are more important.

There doesn't seem to be any reliable method to compare the two products. Unfortunately, that causes some doctors to give up and avoid recommending any herbal products, which is unfortunate, since some of them are powerful and cost-effective.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Dan B,
Registered: 10-23-2011
Posts: 2
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Hey guys. I have been taking the BCM 95 and am not totally sure it is doing much but the 800 mg variety is certainly the biggest dose you can get. I take 3 of these twice a day.
Registered: 08-02-2009
Posts: 206
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NWDPath, I think that 4800 milligrams of curcumin complex per day is quite a lot. Keep a careful watch for any unwanted side effects.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Dan B,
Registered: 06-29-2011
Posts: 8
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Hello, Dan
Thanks for your reply.

I found some information about ASC-J9 from LookChem.


ASC-J9
http://www.lookchem.com/cas-917/917813-54-8.html

curcumin
http://www.lookchem.com/curcumin/


Seems the Formula are different.

Do you think they have same function ?



ASC-J9
Superlist Name:
(1E,4E,6E)-1,7-Bis(3,4-dimethoxyphenyl)-5-hydroxy-1,4,6-heptatrien-3-one
Formula:
C23H24O6


Name:1,6-Heptadiene-3,5-dione,1,7-bis(4-hydroxy-3-methoxyphenyl)-, (1E,6E)-
Superlist Name:Curcumin
CAS No:458-37-7
Formula:C21H20O6
Registered: 08-02-2009
Posts: 206
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Zhu, the two molecules are clearly somewhat similar, but different. The major difference is that dimethoxycurcumin or ASC-J9 has two methyl groups added. I do not know what significance that may have for the treatment of SBMA.

Dr. Chawnshang Chang has said ASC-J9 is better absorbed in the body than curcumin, so that is one of the differences. I would truly like to know if the new enhanced forms of curcumin, such as Meriva and BCM-95, are as well-absorbed as ASC-J9, but I have not seen any information on that.

However, it is interesting to note that curcumin is a naturally-occuring substance from traditional Indian medicine, therefore it is not patentable, it cannot be marketed profitably, and it will never attract the interest of pharma companies and the FDA for studies.

On the other hand, ASC-J9 is a new, lab-created molecule, therefore it has been patented. So you may hear about ASC-J9 from pharma companies, but you will never hear about curcumin from them.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Dan B,
Registered: 06-29-2011
Posts: 8
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Thank you ,Dan, Smiler Smiler
Registered: 08-02-2009
Posts: 206
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At the 2011 KDA conference, there was a presentation that mentioned yet another curcumin-related molecule, called ASC-JM17. If I understand it correctly, the advantage of ASC-JM17 is that it is more absorbable when taken by mouth. The original mouse study of ASC-J9 used peritoneal injection, which is complicated and has safety issues for humans.

For those who have the background in organic chemistry to understand it, there is a patent application that shows the molecular structure of the various ASC molecules. Go to this link or this link then look at the PDF file on the resulting web page.

By the way, the patent application also contains many details on how the ASC molecules work against specific conditions such as acne, alopecia, and SBMA, but the details are very technical.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Dan B,
<liu>
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大家好,我是来自中国的一名肯尼迪病的患者。在这里希望得到大家的帮助。我们那里有很多象我一样的病人,期盼着有好的治疗方法。
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Registered: 09-28-2005
Posts: 654
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Liu's comment above is: "Hello, everyone, I am from China, a Kennedy disease patients. Here hope to get everyone's help. We there are many like me, the patient, looking forward to a good treatment."
Registered: 05-12-2011
Posts: 10
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廖/ 劉 先生, ( Mr.Liu)
我們不是孤單 ( we are not alone)
在香港我已認識另一位 病友( In Hong Kong, I find a KD friend).
不知国內如何? ( How about in PRC).
以我经驗, 姜黃素会有效一些! ( as my experence, tureric / curcumeric is more effective)
<liu>
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王先生你好:
认识你很高兴,目前国内也没有什么很好的治疗方法!前两年也吃了姜黄素,也许是剂量小的缘故,没听说有什么效果。后来还听说要开展基因治疗实验,有几个病友都提取了皮肤。可不知道为什么又停止了!
目前,国内的病友都在盼着姜黄素/ ASC - J9 早日上市。您说的姜黄素会有效值一些,您是怎么服用的?剂量是多少?具体有什么效果?



Mr. Wang hello:

Nice to meet you, there is no good treatment method! Two years ago, also eat curcumin, perhaps small doses of reason, did not hear what effect. Later heard that must carry out experimental gene therapy, some patients are extracted from the skin. Do not know why stopped again!

At present, the domestic people are looking forward to curcumin / ASC - J9 listing as soon as possible. You will be effective value of curcumin, how do you take? Dose is a number? Specific what effect is there?
Registered: 05-12-2011
Posts: 10
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Hi Mr.liu
It is nice that we can communicate with English and share our idea worldwide.
In May this year, I had experience in sudden falling twice on street per week and couldn't get on the coach even using my two hands.
since then, I started to take the basic Turmeric 400 mg per meal, 1200 mg per day. In between, I tried to take Bio-Curcuumin but my stomach did not feel good. Now,the situation is little bit improvement at least the falling condition has been improved to once per month. It seems the deteriorated rate is less than before. I know it can't be recovered like before.
In Hong Kong, hospital just provided me vitamin B and no treatment for many years and do nothing on DNA treatment. I haven't hear that at all.
Yes !! I wait for the new drug but when ???
Meanwhile, I totally rely on Turmeric / Curcumin becasue of no choice!!!
good luck !!
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