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Picture of Robbie2
Location: Vancouver Island, British Columbia
Registered: 10-08-2006
Posts: 58
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Hopefully we won't be looking to buy a chair for sometime to come, but one never knows. What kind of prices are they quoting, Bruce? As we live in Canada, they are not available here yet. Hopefully, if we decide to get one in the future, the prices will be more reasonable.
Picture of Bruce
Registered: 09-28-2005
Posts: 654
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If we are talking about the same chair ... over $10,000 US. I believe the prices will eventually come down as technology improves and competition kicks in.
Picture of Robbie2
Location: Vancouver Island, British Columbia
Registered: 10-08-2006
Posts: 58
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Ouch! Ouch! and Owwwww!! Thanks for the info Smiler
Location: San Luis Obispo CA
Registered: 10-10-2005
Posts: 161
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Here's a similar device: http://www.redmanpowerchair.com/

If anybody gets the price please post.

The iBot looks like the chair that was invented by the guy who eventually founded the company to make the Segway personal transporters.

BTW the Quest magazine published by the MDA has ads for all kinds of useful stuff for those with a lot of experience with SBMA:
http://www.mdausa.org/publications/Quest/q_curr.html


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email:rheitzman at gmail
Location: San Luis Obispo CA
Registered: 10-10-2005
Posts: 161
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Graduating from the Jazzy 1103...

My 1103 is about dead and I have lined up some insurance and support from the MDA to get into a more capable powerchair. I'm seriously looking at the Q600 from Quantum Rehab:
Quantum rehab http://www.quantumrehab.com

If anyone has direct experience with this chair please post you experiences.

Cons - heavier and taller

I have been using a lift on my T&C for the 1103 and the Bruno which has been OK. I'm getting challenged by the transfer and that is part of the reason for the graduation. I considered going with a platform lift instead of the crane-type lift but the chair height at 41" is a problem. Weight of around 300lbs is also an issue for some T&C capable lifts.

Most likely I will need to go to a ramp van - if anyone knows of a good used one in California let me know.

The chair is also somewhat larger than the 1103, but not a lot larger, so I expect it will still work fine indoors.

Pros - rehab seating

As I expect I will be spending a lot more time in the chair within the 5yr insurance cycle I decided to go with rehab seating. The seating on the Q600 will include power tilt which I really liked during my demo time. Not a back recline, but the entire seat pan tilts back, moving your weight from your 100% on your butt to part part on your back. You can go all the way back but that isn't a great position for us. The effect on comfort was dramatic for me so I'm for sure going with the tilt. A small tilt also makes me feel more securely seated. The 1103 has a bad habit of pitching forward which is a bit scary these days for me.

I think I will also add the elevator seat as a custom built option. (The bigger Q6000 can be fitted with both as regular options but I want the smaller chair.) The seat cannot go lower than 20" at the pan base so the chair isn't great for stuff like normal dining height. But the elevator seat helps with reaching and transfers - I would really miss it if I didn't have it I'm sure.

I'll probably keep the 1103 as a backup until it totally dies - probably leaving a trail of gear parts along the way.

pros - locomotion

The Q600 is an amazingly stable and maneuverable mid-wheel drive chair with 6 wheels on the ground. I don't really challenge a chair like some do but reviews of the Q600/Q6000 are full of praise for its abilities.


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email:rheitzman at gmail
Picture of Bruce
Registered: 09-28-2005
Posts: 654
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Bob, thanks for the update on the Q600. I followed you link and did a little reading and watching. It looks like an improvement. I have the Jazzy 1121 today and use the Bruno Joey platform lift in my T&C. My wife and I really like the Joey ... easy to use, convenient, back-up battery, etc. If you look at any platform, go for the auto-retracting tie-downs versus the manual tie-down. They are worth the few extra bucks.

Let us know how you like your new chair in a few months.
Location: Winnipeg, Man. Canada
Registered: 03-01-2006
Posts: 17
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The Quantum does look impressive. The off road prt looks great! I was fourtunate(canadian spelling, lol) enough to have my chair supplied by SMD(Society for Manitobans with Disabilities). A Occupational Therapist comes and assesses your physical needs both present and possible future, sizes you for requirements. Also assess manuverabilty needs for your home etc. You then fill out the application and proceed to wait. The whole procedure took over 6 months, but worth it in the end.

The result being a Quikie Freestyle F11.
It is a mid-wheel chair with power tilt. It has a head rest and a pan seat for which I purchased a "Jay Solution" seat cushion. As my comfort zone changes, I can adjust the tilt. I've climbed over threshholds and curbs around 2 to 3 inches regularly. Rough terrain is handled good also but, you feel it. The remote has 5 speed settings plus it also has a speed governing dial. The arm rests are hight adjustable and easily removeable with one hand, which is great for using my transfer board to get into my "Bruno Turny Seat" which I had installed in my Montana van.
It is very heavy, 275 lbs and quite expensive. I would say close to $10,000 with tilt, cushion, and gel-filled battery upgrade.
Here is a site to chair and prices.
Planet Mobility

Will be testing battery life in Las Vegas next week YeeHaw! Smiler

Getting our first snow right now, here in Winnipeg. Frowner
Location: San Luis Obispo CA
Registered: 10-10-2005
Posts: 161
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I have committed to the purchase of a used Permobile C300 (more later after I have some time in it.)

Of course after I settled on the C300 some interesting option appeared! The C300 is a great chair however it is one of those products that is still existing on extremely inflated pricing. A new C300 configured with many of the bells and whistles (elevate, tilt, recline, leg lift) pencils out to over $25K. Of course this is the price lawsuits pay for and few individuals will pay this price. The dealers however have leverage in that the market is so small, and the availability of service so limited, that the pressure to lower prices is minimal. Used C300 with the same bells and whistles can be had for under $10, still high but the multi-feature rehab seating is expensive.

A promising development is Motion Concepts, a company that specializes in seating that can be used with many different bases.
Motion Concepts

I don't know how the Motion Concepts products are priced but hopefully a base/seat combo would result in a more affordable chair.

If someone does look into the Motion Concepts seating please post your experience.

Given we may all have similar seating needs at some point an interesting exercise would be the development of a KDA optimized configuration.


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email:rheitzman at gmail
Location: San Luis Obispo CA
Registered: 10-10-2005
Posts: 161
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I've been using a Permobile C300 for several months now and I'm very happy with it. I was able to find a used one for $11,000 with four way adjustments: seat raise, seat tilt, back tilt, leg lift and few other minor options. As noted before a retail version is in the high $20Ks so unless money is not a concern a used chair is the way to go. I had to beef up the threshold ramps at home but other than that no problems.

The main reason I went with the C300 over the Q line was that the C300 seat could go low enough that I can drive from my chair in a ramp van. With the Q600 me head was touching the roof of my '99 Dodge IMS conversion.

Speaking of a ramp van - I really love it! Being able to roll right into the driver seat is great! I get out an about much more often. Parking isn't the issue I had thought it would be - I either park far out in a mall lot and take two spaces or I park at meters that don't have sidewalk obstructions for the ramp. Since I have the advantage of the power chair I don't used marked handicapped spaces leaving them for those with mobility issues. I just head out for the fringes and ride back!

The van cost me $22K. The IMS conversion was listed as $11K (deductible medical expense - the chair was 100% deductable) and the rest was the Blue Book for an unmodified '99 Dodge Caravan.

I'm going to add hand controls next. I can still use my right foot for gas/brake but I think I would feel more confident if I had the option to use a hand control once in a while. I'm going with the Sure-grip hand controls. I'll post a review on these too.


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email:rheitzman at gmail
Picture of Bruce
Registered: 09-28-2005
Posts: 654
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Bob, you are always a wealth of information and I appreciate you taking the time to keep others informed. Take care.
Location: San Luis Obispo CA
Registered: 10-10-2005
Posts: 161
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I've had my Sure-Grip hand controls for about a month and I really like them. I haven't used others but I know the Sure-Grips work for me!

The control's design allows operation without significant grip strength as you may imply from the name. The control is installed on the left of the steering wheel at about the 8 o'clock position fairly close to the wheel. You can apply pressure downward for throttle and still keep some contact with the wheel when you are in a steady state. During acceleration you left hand is pretty much dedicated to the control so a "spinner" is require to accomplish turns while accelerating, like a turn from a stop in an intersection.

I can still use my right foot to control the car but I find I use the hand controls in almost all case. The controls do not interfere significantly with the pedals although the gas rod may interfere for some.

$1,000 installed.

The install didn't go as smoothly as I had hoped. I think the wrong parts may have been shipped since the install was problematic in areas that should have be resolved long ago. My DME shop can make anything work and I think the took on the install as a challenge. They should have recognized early that they didn't have the correct parts but they just forced to work. The first try had to be removed because the gas they could could only get the gas rod to work attached to the left side of the throttle. This prevent me from being able to swing my foot from gar to brake so was unacceptable. It was disassembled and after conference with the factory (eastern French speaking Canada) a way was found to connect the rod to the right side and that is working fine today (even with the wrong parts!)

Looking a more traditional controls I don't think I couldn't use them given the nature of SBMA. But the Sure-Grips are working for me today.


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email:rheitzman at gmail
Location: San Luis Obispo CA
Registered: 10-10-2005
Posts: 161
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I added power steering assist to my Dodge Caravan with IMS lower floor/ramp conversion. I selected the 1/2 effort option that does not need battery backup systems. My shoulder was getting a bit sore cranking the wheel around while doing a daily K-turn for parking. Figured the $1,200 investment was cheaper than shoulder/joint problems.

Sure-Grip hand controls still working great - I'd recommend them. I'm using the controls 100% of the time now as I can't easily lift my right leg any more.

Took and passed a CA behind the wheel driving test. My renewal was up and I checked the box that I had a change in medical condition. I had to get my neurologist to fill in some paper work, had a face to face interview with a regional examiner, then a road test. Took months. Plan on DMV visit for an temporary/extension license, interview and driving test. ALWAYS use appointments.


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email:rheitzman at gmail
Location: San Luis Obispo CA
Registered: 10-10-2005
Posts: 161
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New URL for the Sure-Grip hand controls
http://www.suregrip-hvl.com/ha...trols/push-rock.html

Still highly recommended.


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email:rheitzman at gmail
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